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Axial Wraith - Definitive Upgrade Guide (always refer to 1st post for list)

Discussion in 'Newbe Help' started by dna4engr, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    Ok I'll try the Titan then, thanks.
     
  2. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    The Titan 12t will work pretty well, until it wears out. It's a nice budget option to get wheel speed, but they don't last very long when put through abuse like the mud (it's listed above as it's the cheapest option to get wheel speed and torque, I never said it's durable).
    I only mention this as you said price is not an issue. If that's truly the case, maybe you want to look at a brushless setup? The Traxxas Velenion is a good starting point. However you won't be able to crawl on rocks as well. The Castle sidewinder combos would be good too. If you went this route, the driveline may not last as long as with a brushed motor. Just means replacing parts or upgrading.

    Are Team Brood motors available in UK? They and Holmes H make the best crawler and scaler motors for brushed configurations. They have several that would be a good fit. The Stump Humper 550 size motor would be perfect. I'm not really fluent with their other offerings.

    Feel free to ask more questions. I realize the list is very north America centric. I will look around for other options too and let you know.

    Dna
     
  3. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    Thanks for all of your effort but I've searched and can't find anywhere that sell team brood or Holmes hobbies stuff in the uk, also I looked at the stump humper 550, it looked good but sadly not in the uk, I'm going to keep on searching and when I find the brushed motor I want I'll contact you.
     
  4. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    I had an idea yesterday. I was looking at hobby store websites in the uk. Looks like there is plenty of brushed motors available just not the ones I mentioned. For what you want to do, you could pick up 2 35t motors and use a double motor mount (off of eBay). Then run a pinion on each I the 22-24 Range with an 87 spur. Or use a 20 to 21 with an 80 spur. Gearing this high will give you wheel speed required for mudding and the 2 motors will have enough torque to keep them spinning.

    The stock esc likely can't handle this but you could always pick uo a hobbywing 1060 off of eBay. I've never tried it with 2 motors but with 60amp capability and waterproof it might be the ticket.

    Another 2 motor option would be to get 2 19-20t motors and gear a little lower than stock 18-19 pinion on 80 spur.

    This is not an original idea. Medic did this in his beast build on YouTube. The rig is now a blue jeep and has some really good wheel speed for having 35t motors.

    The key for either option is to get a decent quality brushed motor with good magnets and brushes. This gives you the torque you need for the mud not just the speed. Integy lathe motors are a decent cost effective option. Hopefully those are available in the uk.

    The only thing against the stock axial motor or rc4wd can motor is that they don't have as good of magnets or brushes to really get the torque. They work fine and last a while but the torque isn't there.

    Dna
     
    #44 dna4engr, May 9, 2014
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  5. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    Yeah about your dual motor idea, I just wanted originally just a single motor that is brushed and great in the mud and doesn't and I mean not even the slightest ever overheat, because my problem at the moment is my motors over heat soooo easily, they are the stock 20t but I changed round the gears to 16t spur gear and an 87t pinion or is it the other way round with the names, the gear ratio I found online on this forum somewhere, slowed down my wraith by quite a bit and gradually the motor stopped overheating but now it's started again, thanks for the dual motor idea but really I just want 1 really good motor that will last for ages and go through snow and mud easily and eventually after a year hopefully I could just swap it round for another, quick change over, a few screws out motor out new motor in done. Oh yeah minimal maintenance is helpful because at the moment I've just got into the pattern of cleaning out my motor with a lot of water inside and outside of the motor and using pressurised air and then just leaving it to the next time I use it.

    I did find some integy motors but none were 20t, 19t to 55t because all know about gearing is that mine makes the car go slow, I'm trying to find a 19t 20t or 21t because they are closest to the numbers that I was told to use, I'm just not sure how it works but if you have any recommendations for spur and pinion gear numbers and a motor turn number that works well with those that will help.
     
    #45 AJW, May 10, 2014
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  6. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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  7. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    So which on that website, which would you recommend being the best and most durable and long lasting on that website for mudding, and also which doesn't overheat that much.

    Also on another topic which would go with my 16t spur and 87t pinion ratio or could just explain the concept of pinion and spur and motor ratios
     
    #47 AJW, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  8. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    Thanks for finding the website aswel
     
  9. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    The short answer to your question truly is that you need a brushless system. If you want to run in mud and snow and trail and take minimal care of the motor then brushless is your best option. It's not that brushless motors are maintenance free. They are just require less maintenance than brushed motors. And it you start off with corrosionx as a lubricant you can go for a while in the mud and snow just rinse off with clean water.

    Brushed motors are a wear item. Due to the brushes and the comm. they are designed to wear as the rig is used. Also, the cans of brushed motors are usually vented so its easy for stuff to get inside. For a brushed motor to last a year under hard use it needs to be lubricated regularly and the brushes will need to be replaced maybe multiple times. I have a holmes hobbies torquemaster 27t I ran on 3s for 6 months. Only on rocks and the trail. At the end of those 6 months the speed had dwindled down and it needed a comm turn and new brushes. It's just a reality of brushed motors. Now if you only ever ran in clean areas or don't really run your rig hard a brushed motor might last a year. For anyone who actually runs there rig hard and in harsh areas, they know that the motor needs maintenance or replacement.

    Brushless motors don't have brushes, so immediately you reduce your maintenance. The only thing they do need is maybe some lubricating on the bearings if you've run a lit of mud and water. I ran a tekin redline 13.5 that I waterproofed through mud and water and a lot of trail running for over a year on 3s and never touched the bearings. I sold it earlier this year and its still going strong in my friends rig. Even if it starts to go bad its an easy fix.

    At the end of the day the total cost of a brushless system will be less than brushed if you use your rig a lot. When you take into account the maintenance or replacement of a brushed motor.
    Excellent brushed system - hh brxl torquemaster combo - $150-160
    Excellent brushless system - castle mmp - tekin redline - $180 (if sourced from the right spots), traxxas vxl - $170ish

    Hope this helps. You don't have to go brushless but you will be happier if you do. You can even get motors that are a little more mild so you won't blow up the driveline right away.

    Dna

    EDIT: I just looked at the website and realized how expensive the hh motors will be in eu. Going brushless may even be cheaper.

     
    #49 dna4engr, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  10. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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    It isn't just HH motors that are expensive here in europe, it's the same for servos, ESCs, and oretty much everything else.
     
  11. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    Understood. I've always marveled at how consumer products are priced in Europe. First off the government takes 50% or more of everyone's pay and then they tax all imported goods to high heavens. It's a wonder most folks can afford a hobby. To me its makes a lot of sense for stuff like hh or brood since they are small us companies. But tekin and castle and, and, and are pretty much a worldwide company and all there stuff ships from china or Japan or some other Asian country. Why charge Europeans so much more.

    Idk, I'm not an expert on foreign economy so I should just keep quiet :enjoyingmahplaylist
     
  12. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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    Yeah stuff are expensive here.
    I would love it build my Wraith into a TTC champ, but in the end it would probably be too expensive, not just to build but also to maintain and replace stuff if and when it breaks.
    So in the end, I end up cheaping out on some parts, and not doing some of the upgrades.
    So far it is as follows:
    Axial "Wraith" 1/10th 4WD Electric Rock Racer Kit
    MIP Axial Wraith/Honcho Spline Center CVD Kit
    Axial Simple LED Controller w/LED lights
    King Off-Road Scale Piggyback Shocks w/Faux Reservoir (110mm)
    Dick Cepek DC-2 2.2" Internal Beadlock Wheels
    Mickey Thompson 2.2 Baja Claw TTC Scale Tyres
    Aluminum Steering Link Kit from RC4WD
    Savöx SW231-MG Servo
    Fastrax Medium Duty Alloy Single Servo Horn - 25T Savox/Futaba
    Heavy Duty Bevel gear Sets 36t14t
    Wraith locked Transmission HD Machine Cut steel
    Castle Mamba Max Pro
    Axial 27 Turn
    And it owes me over $1500US

    I know a lot of people would recommend getting C-Hubs, Knuckles and Lockouts as one of the first upgrades, but for me it will probably be one of the last upgrades along with the Axle housings.
    But for now the stock ones work, and with prices around here you have to adopt the mentality, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" on a lot of things.
    My next upgrades will be most likely be a Vanquish Transmission case and after market spur gear, to make the drive train as strong as is affordable before going brushless, where options become very limited, 4 pole sensored motors in the lower KV range are hard to find, not only in europe it seems.
     
  13. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    The reason I also wanted to go for brushed is the easy change over, brushless requires me changing the esc aswel and i am going to find it very hard to solder the plugs and on/off switch when I don't have a soldering iron and also I waterproofed and covered my esc in sooo much plasti dip it is impossible to take out without breaking something, that will honestly take hours to uncover and remove, but if you think that going brushless will work a lot better then I'll try it but I don't have the cash right now so I'll have to wait awhile before I can get it
     
  14. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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    Hmmm maybe it's time to try a Tekin Pro4 HD 4300kv.
    My Axial 27T puffed blue smoke the other day.
     
  15. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    Maybe try the 3000kv. You'll be more controllable at speed.

    Dna
     
  16. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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    I want something that doesn't burn up, so my thinking is, a sensored brushless motor in the lower KV range, that is 4 pole to get a bit more torque, that I can run on a higher voltage than 2S so it's as smooth through the rpm range as possible.

    Either Tekin PRO4HD 2500kV, or Tekin PRO4 2400kV, or Tekin ROC 412 2300kV all are at least 3S compatible.
    All will get me in the max speed range I want with a lower gearing than stock, to help keep temps down.

    But that means going out and buying a new motor that costs between $205 and $230 in europe plus shipping.
    In a few months when my summer vacation is over I will do that but in mean time I was thinking I could use the Tekin PRO4HD 4300kV that I already own that is in a race right that I never use.
     
  17. Bubba J

    Bubba J Studio Forums Elite
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    That is a awesome idea dna4engr this will help a lot of new and seasoned RCer's.
     
  18. dna4engr

    dna4engr Studio Forums Elite
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    Gotcha. That will work just gear down as much as possible. Probably 60t 32p spur with 9t pinion. Obviously only run it on 2s.

    Good luck.

    Dna

     
  19. AJW

    AJW Studio Forums Elite
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    Hey, whats your opinion on the vxl velineon just looking for something cheaper than the full on TTC champion wraith with MMP and ROC 412.
     
    #59 AJW, Jan 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  20. Thomas Moffat

    Thomas Moffat Studio Forums Elite
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    The problem with the VXL3s and Velineon 3500kv motor is that the motor isn't sensored, and the ESC doesn't have any hill brake.
    So it will work, and work well for bashing, but that is the only thing it will do well.
     

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