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Yet Another Potatocat 6WD/6WS Project - Pickle Time!

Discussion in 'Road Giants 6x6/8x8/10x10' started by potatocat, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    I was cleaning and consolidating my workspace and storage area when it just sort of hit me. Actually it was a hit from multiple angles:

    1) the Tamiya Konghead was just announced and while I am very excited about it and celebrate its existence- to me personally it is a huge set of compromises- some of which I found unacceptable. I knew that I could do better in the compact 6X6 department. Hence, fire is now lit.

    2) I realized I had enough spare TLT-1 parts to make this happen.Granted I have to sacrifice my old nitro powered TLT-1 to make this work... it will be worth it.

    3) My daughter has been nudging me into wanting an R/C model of her own size that she could drive. She is still young and her attention span is limited but her curiousity is intense- so she is watching everything happening each step of the way.


    Here is where I started, with a pile of axles pulled out of a box.
    [​IMG]

    Then I milled up some chassis rails with my daughter watching most of the way. Extensive CAD (cardboard assisted design) was utilized.
    [​IMG]

    The first set of axle staunchions (for front and rear) was machined and test fitted.
    [​IMG]

    It's actually pretty small! How it stacks up compared to the other 6x6 trucks...
    [​IMG]

    BTW This truck needs a name. The more over the top, and potentially offensive the better. I tentatively am calling it "Project Overpowerlord"

    Thanks for reading!
     
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  2. Antho11

    Antho11 Studio Forums Elite
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    I'm looking forward to more awesome progress. Are the axles the same as you used on your previous build because they look smaller? Im just curious as to why you think the new Konghead has a huge set of compromises since you have a lot of experience with Tamiya solid axle monster trucks. I don't have any experience with them and I'm interested in maybe buying this one.
     
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  3. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
    These axles are different. The TLT-1 is much smaller than the Clod Buster or TXT-1 axles. I'll take some pictures later to highlight the differences but they are very significant.

    As to what is going against the Konghead so far (in my opinion).
    - That giant centipede of gears seems really wasteful in real estate and extra driveline drag. If the gearbox cutaway on the box art which was released is to believed, this is going to be a noisy truck. I just think that by not using solid axles, it really inhibits the modding potential by eliminating adjustable wheelbases and such.

    - Battery placement is not ideal. That weight really needs to move all the way back between the mid and rear axles. For the trucks that I have done this to the difference in handling and driving dynamics is phenomenal. Tiamat (my Clod based 6x6) handles with just a touch of understeer on corners, but blip the throttle and it drifts very predictably and controllably on dirt. I'm making the best use of all that contact patch that I can. If the weight is concentrated between the front and mid axles, a 6x6 will oversteer and generally be harrowing and squirrely at higher speeds. Most of my friends who have driven the truck are shocked by how 'touring car' it handles. This is an older video and i'm not super proud of it, but one thing it shows is how much of a change a 6x6 feels at higher power loads.


    - Just one motor? Hey that's okay. Makes it easier for choosing motors and electronics. It's at the front of the truck? Wait. What? My rant from above covers this gripe.

    - 4WS is only supported? Hopefully 6WS claw steering can be done without much effort. The jury is out on that one until the truck is released. This released pics don't shed much light on this setup.

    - That front steering servo linkage is dangerously exposed and somewhat precarious. It looks like it was tacked on. Again the jury is out on this one until it is out in the wild.

    - Limited suspension travel. Those GF-01 trucks didn't need a lot because they were so stubby. But one thing I have noticed for 6x6 trucks in this department is that each axle needs more suspension travel compared to an equivalent 4x4. My reasoning for this is if the truck is longer (because it now has extra axle on board) it is going to need more overall travel to compensate for the distorted length to width proportions, especially when offroad in technical/crawling conditions. This new G6-01 chassis is still stubby relative to any of my trucks... but I really hope it has more suspension travel. The existing photos don't show any changes on the suspension so it looks like this one is a wash.

    So all of this seems like I am ripping on the truck saying it's no good and it's junk. But that isn't my intent. I actually really mean it when I say I am absolutely thrilled when I see this truck out for release. I REALLY want it to do well and enough of them to be in people's hands so that when I go to a track I am no longer the weirdo with the 6WDs. But it would be foolish of me to overlook some shortcomings especially since I am reasonably familiar with this type of vehicle. But the people at Tamiya aren't stupid.

    Maybe I am the crazy one because my priorities are different. I want fast, crisp handling 6WD/6WS trucks optimized for wide open, sweeping circuits. Not everybody wants that. The last time I drove a Lunch Box or Wild Willy I was basically rolling with laughter because the experience WAS TOTALLY FREAKING FUN. I hope the Konghead excels in that department. If it's fun, then nobody is going to care how crummy it might handle. If it's good at being fun, then you can just chalk up my complaints as a nitpicker going off the deep end. And I can accept that.

    If you made it this far... wow. Thanks for reading my blabber!
     
    #3 potatocat, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  4. Antho11

    Antho11 Studio Forums Elite
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    Wow thanks for expanding on your thought, I appreciate a thought out answer to my question lol! You bring up lots of good points that I haven't thought of. Your correct that no solid axles really limits the customizability of it along with the transmission that spans the length of the vehicle. Tamiya usually nails the fun factor and I'm sure this one will fit the bill. Thanks for you explanation.

    Your 6x6 looks like it's a blast to drive and drifting seems like no problem. You would think that it would have a tendency to tip over with a high center of mass.
     
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  5. Mark Liersch

    Mark Liersch Studio Forums Elite
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    That's wild... I've never seen anybody throw around a 6x6 like that. Nice work, looks like you've got that big booger dialled right in. Really neat...
     
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  6. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys! Yeah, sorry for the super wordy blather Antho11. For a long time I am the only one with 6x6 trucks and am really just excited that Tamiya is making the leap.

    That video was taken waaaay back in 2002... the motors at that time were 9T brushed. The amount of power going through Tiamat these days is significantly more- 3s LiPo and old school Hacker C50MAXX brushless motors. The handling has improved in small increments as well. It's definitely not the fastest 6x6 or most powerful but the chassis has handled upgrades very well, and I've been able to modify things continuously on it since 2001 without having to start from scratch, or run out of space and hack things badly.

    Mark, its really funny you say 'big booger' - one of my Russian friends calls the truck exactly that because it is yellow.

    This new truck I am looking to have a reasonable amount of power. It's probably going to have the brushed equivalent of a 17T motor. The radio will be endpoint limited so as my daughter gets more accustomed to higher speed, it can be adjusted and cranked up over time. I have a few neat tricks up my sleeve for the transmission and how to fit everything into such a narrow space. Now that the twin vertical staunchions and chassis rails are done, that's the next step.

    Oh i almost forgot. This is a pic comparing the relative sizes of the axles... a Clod versus the TLT-1...
    [​IMG]


    Thanks for reading!
     
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  7. Mark Liersch

    Mark Liersch Studio Forums Elite
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    So you got you're daughter hooked on the hobby too, eh? Nice. How about calling it the "Little Booger"? Depending on her age, and her sense of humour, it'll either go over over well or fall flat as my feet...
     
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  8. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    That might work actually... she has a freakishly high tolerance for gross stuff and already has a decent repertoire of poop jokes, but somehow is quite ladylike. I am amused, and my wife is much less than amused about that.

    I'm building a list of things as possible names and will likely let her just pick one. Little Booger is definitely the first one so far.

    I found a garbage truck from Playmobil of all things which might be PERFECT for a body.

    http://www.toysrus.com/buy/cars-tru...reen-recycling-truck-27-pieces-5679-103488306
     
  9. Mark Liersch

    Mark Liersch Studio Forums Elite
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    :nose pick:And it's even booger green...
     
  10. soup

    soup Studio Forums Elite
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    How about calling it SFO TRUCK ( small f**k off truck) pron. Sifo truck. Just don't tell wife/daughter what it stands for.

    Think I would try some sort of military theme like a Striker or some such.
    Mind you a striker has eight wheels .

    How about a Puma:-
    [​IMG]
    or a Stalwart :-
    [​IMG]

    Amphibious too:-
    [​IMG]
     
    #10 soup, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  11. Mark Liersch

    Mark Liersch Studio Forums Elite
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    Ooh... I want the Stalwart...
     
  12. soup

    soup Studio Forums Elite
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    Only six grand to you Governor
    http://www.tanks-alot.co.uk/sales.htm

    Probably add import fees, shipping across the pond etc . Mind you yous Canadians used them too so you may be able to get one local.
     
  13. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    Yup, the garbage truck is already booger green :) Its also perfect because the top comes on and off so that she can roleplay and put figures or other stuff into the cab.

    I'm not sure how much she really is R/C but I really don't mind either way. She is my milling machine co-pilot, and helps calling out measurements from the DRO like a treasure map. She's pretty curious and all I care about is that she seems to get a real thrill out of watching cardboard mockups get turned one by one into finished aluminum.

    Those military sourced trucks are really awesome. If I was going that route I would probably build a Pinzgauer. The Stalwart is a pretty close second though...
     
  14. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    Nothing major to update, and I probably won't get to do much until the weekend as I need my machining copilot present :)

    ...but I now have a body for this little critter. Here it is test fitted...
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    It came from a Playmobil recycling truck. I will attempt to build a sleeper cab for it using the plastic from the garbage bin section.

    This is a view of the chassis flipped on its back. Not a lot of room in there (just under 2" width inside the axle staunchions.
    [​IMG]

    So I wonder if anyone can figure out what transmission I am going to fit in that tight space? :)
     
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  15. soup

    soup Studio Forums Elite
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    If it's an RC one you will need to build your own.
    I had a wee look on Google and there are a few RC versions but they seem to be all scratchbuilt there are no kits or anything (that I can see).

    So who's going to be brave enough? Not me that's for sure.

    Possibly the most'exciting' video of a real one in action .


    and the only 'working' RC I can find

    Hold on for the crane bit
     
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  16. Antho11

    Antho11 Studio Forums Elite
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    I'm hoping the transmission is a 3 speed from a High lift! How about calling it "The Spudster". Potatoe + small = Spudster
     
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  17. Mark Liersch

    Mark Liersch Studio Forums Elite
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    To go further on the potato theme, how's Tater Tot? Probably not gross enough for her...
     
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  18. soup

    soup Studio Forums Elite
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    Tater snot ? Snot~Booger , ah well suit yourself ;O)
     
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  19. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what the truck will eventually be named, but some variation of potatoes and boogers will most likely stand. "Big Green Snot Machine" seems to be a frontrunner at the moment. :)
     
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  20. potatocat

    potatocat Well-Known Member

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    Only some minor updates so far... I started hacking away at the body, and it really fits perfectly. Still some work to be done- the 'sleeper' has been cut, but not sealed... so there is a giant hole in the back. But I am seriously happy with how this modified garbage truck body sits- without too much major work so far either.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The center axle spool was slapped together from spare 5mm stock. The pulley is from a Tamiya TA04. For some reason I have a whole ton of those things. The bushing mounting it to the 5mm shaft is something i lathed up rather quickly out of Delrin. It has a center setscrew binding it to the shaft.

    [​IMG]


    Thanks for reading!
     
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